Reading Inclusively: A Conversation with Gene Luen Yang
SK: There’s so much happening in comics right now.
GLY: It’s really a renaissance!
SK: It is! And there’s a lot happening with graphic novels and memoirs, but also with capes and tights and serialized comics, like with Image.
GLY: Image is stunning. I was reading comics when Image came around, and if you’d told me at the time that 20 years from now, Image will be known for its storytelling, I would have been like, “WHAT?”
SK: But even with Marvel and DC trying to diversify both on the pages and behind the scenes, where do you see this push for diversity and inclusivity going?
GLY: I think it’s an encouraging trend. I do think that capes and tights, in particular, have certain challenges that the rest of comics don’t have. Capes and tights comics are largely driven by nostalgia. Whenever you have a character of color pick up a legacy, sooner or later, it seems like it snaps back. I don’t even think it’s necessarily racially based, it’s nostalgia based.
Even now, the majority of comics readers are dudes my age.
SK: People ask me all the time, “Aren’t comics for 15-year-old boys?” and I always say, “No, 15-year-old boys don’t really read comics!”
GLY: Yeah! Well, they do read comics, they just aren’t reading superhero comics.
I have a visceral love for superheroes, so I really want them to get better. I think Ms. Marvel is huge and points us in the right direction.
SK: Yes! Ms. Marvel is what got me reading capes and tights comics, when I could see that someone like me existed in this universe.
GLY: She’s an example of a legacy character who outshines her legacy. No one thinks of the old Ms. Marvel when you say that name.
SK: Let’s talk about the capes and tights you’re currently writing, which is the main Superman book. Superman is the ultimate immigrant story, which you’ve discussed previously. How do you bring your experiences into the writing of this comic, especially with a character who, as you said, is so based in nostalgia?
GLY: He really is. He’s the most nostalgic character of all.
It’s been a huge learning experience. This is the first time I’ve had a real team writing experience. I’m responsible for Superman, but Superman is in four different books, so I’ve had to coordinate with three other writers. Luckily I like them all, they’re all awesome and we get along, but Superman has to fit in a larger universe and there are other voices that inform what we’re doing.
He’s their corporate icon. Even though Batman sells way better than Superman, I don’t think he has as many limitations put on him as Superman does. It’s sort of the way, for Disney. Donald Duck gets to do things that Mickey Mouse could never do. Mickey’s their corporate icon. Mickey is Superman. Donald is Batman.
So it’s been tricky to navigate all that stuff. That being said, pieces of my background definitely do show up in in my work on Superman. My take on Superman is that he’s seen as the perfect citizen, right?
SK: Yes, he’s the model immigrant.
GLY: Yes! He’s the perfect American citizen. My take on him, which I’ve gotten some push back on, is that the reason he’s like that is because deep down inside, he knows he’s an alien. He tries to be the perfect citizen so that no one questions his citizenship. Batman doesn’t have that same inner struggle.
SK: It’s such a profound thing. It never struck me how much it is an immigrant story until you started writing it.
GLY: I was able to put that in specifically in issue 46.
A couple of things I’m really happy about with my run. It’s not a perfect run, for sure. I feel like there’s a really steep learning curve,i and I wish I’d traversed that curve a little bit faster. First, I got to bring Superman to Oakland, which I was super happy about. Oakland has this amazing immigrant community, multiple immigrant communities. It’s a really diverse city.
There’s also this underground wrestling league called Hoodslam. I did a DC Comics version of it called MythBrawl, which featured gods from non-European culture. So there’s a Filipino sun god, there’s a Filipina moon goddess, there’s the Korean sun god, the woman who runs it is Scheherazade, the Persian writer of 1001 Nights. In that context, I was able to talk a little more about Superman being an outsider.
SK: You mentioned that there was a steep learning curve to writing Superman. What are some of the things you learned?
GLY: The 22-page limit was really rough on me at first. And the fact that, because you’re working in a shared universe, things can change on a whim. You can plan out something, and then something shifts in the universe, and it affects what you’re doing. It’s challenging, but I also think that in the best case it can be fruitful.
